Florida
Building Commission
Education
POC Minutes
Tallahassee,
Florida
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Meeting information
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Date: Monday, January 28, 2013
Time: 10:00 am, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)
Meeting Number: 640 414 741
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Education POC Objectives |
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Ø To
approve January 28 2013 Agenda Ø To
approve January 11 Meeting Minutes Ø
To approve November 2012 Minutes Ø
To review/decide pending accreditor applications Ø
To review/decide accredited advanced courses Ø
To review/decide administratively approved
updated courses Ø
To review/decide self affirmed updated courses Ø
To review/discuss Education Administrator
activity report Ø
To identify future POC member discussion items Ø
To discuss general public comment Ø
To identify needed next steps, assignments,
and agenda items for next meeting |
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Education POC Meeting Minutes— January 28, 2013 |
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All Agenda Times—Including
Adjournment—Are Approximate and Subject to Change |
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10:12
a.m. EST |
1.) |
Welcome and Opening, Roll Call POC Members Present: Jeffrey
Stone PhD (Temporary Chair), Herminio Gonzalez, Ken Gregory, Drew Smith,
Kevin Flanagan POC Member(s) Absent: Jon
Hamrick, Scott Mollan Meeting
Attendees Identified: Ila
Jones Lisa Pate Lauren
Truluck John Adcox Cam
Fentriss Med Kopczynski Michael Clark Don Whitehead April
Hammonds Marlita Peters Joe Bigelow |
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2.) |
Review and approval of the January 28, 2013
meeting Agenda Motion: To
approve as submitted Motion: Drew
Smith Second: Ken
Gregory Approved Unanimously |
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3.) |
Review and approval of January 11, 2013
meeting Minutes Motion: To
approve as submitted Motion: Ken
Gregory Second: Drew
Smith Approved Unanimously |
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4.) |
Review and approval of the November 2012
meeting Minutes Motion: To
approve as submitted Motion: Ken
Gregory Second: Drew
Smith Approved Unanimously |
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5.) |
Review pending accreditor
applications for recommendation to the Commission None Pending |
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6.) |
Review pending advanced accredited
courses for recommendation to the Commission Course: 2010 Florida Building Code Accessibility Provider: FRSA – Fl . Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond.
Cont. Assn. Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 541.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Kevin Flanagan Discussion: Education Administrator Michael Clark stated
that this course was deferred at the November ED POC meeting
because of some minor issues on slides 29 and 35-38 and the course title was
missing the word “Advanced.” He
further stated that he found during his current review of this course some
minor typographical errors on slides 11 and 21. He stated that all of the
issues identified in the November meeting had been rectified. Mr. Clark did say an issue still existed for this course, which was the course was not accredited and submitted in its final form into the BCIS until January 14, 2013 meaning the course was four days past the deadline for inclusion (January 12, 2013) on the agenda. Mr. Clark asked all of the ED POC members to view the course history on the Education Administrator’s report. He then summarized the course history and stated that most of the emails and phone calls between he and the provider were as a result of technical issues the provider was experiencing when she tried to upload the course materials into the BCIS. According to the provider, the system (BCIS) was not allowing the course materials to be uploaded, which was the reason for the materials being a late submission. April Hammonds, the FBC General Counsel, stated that her advice to
the ED POC would be to approve this course. However, she further stated that
this approval would open a door and essentially create a precedent that
others could use. She said the rule may need to be modified to reflect (list)
exceptions to the current rule deadline.
Ila Jones pointed out that the deadline applies to course
accreditation – not uploading of materials – and some providers wait until
the last minute to have their courses accredited, which then magnifies any
system issues or time lapses. She felt that the accreditation process for
this course could be a case in point about waiting until the last minute. Lisa Pate with FRSA, the training provider for this course, stated
that, after believing she had uploaded the materials on December 7, 2012, she
started the process of re-uploading on January 9, 2013 and was still having
technical issues on January 12, 2013 (the deadline), then contacted Michael
Clark. Med Kopczynski, a training provider/accreditor, stated that at
times things happen which are out of everyone’s control and providers who
make a good faith effort to comply with the rules should receive the benefit
of the doubt from the ED POC and be allowed to proceed without experiencing
what would be considered a punitive action. Approved Unanimously Course: 2010 FBC – ENERGY CONSERVATION Provider: Florida Air Conditioning Apprenticeship
Association Accreditor: BCIC LLC BCIS Course Number: 548.0 Motion: Course should be deleted from the
agenda because it was previously denied at the November 2012 ED
POC Meeting Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Drew Smith Discussion: Michael Clark stated that this course
should not have been placed on this agenda because it was denied at the
November 2012 ED POC Meeting. The reason for the denial was that it was a duplicate
of course number 552.0 which was approved by the ED POC at the November 2012
Meeting. Approved Unanimously Course: Advanced Building Code (Online) Provider: Adcox Group Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 270.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content and after the three identified typographical errors
are corrected on slide one Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Drew Smith Discussion: It
was noted that this course was accredited and submitted in its final form
into the BCIS on January 18, 2013 which was six days after the deadline date
of January 12, 2013. Mr. Clark stated that this provider experienced system
difficulties uploading materials, as evidenced by the course history (BCIS
actions, emails, phone calls) posted in the Education Administrator’s report. Michael Clark stated that
after his review of this course he found three minor typographical errors on
slide one. Specifically, the word “code” is left off the last sentence, the
word “extend” should be “extent,” and “contactor” should be “contractor.” Approved Unanimously Course: Fire Protection Systems-Advanced Course Provider: Alarm Association of Florida, Inc. Accreditor: Stay Safe Enterprises BCIS Course Number: 549.0 Motion: Course conditionally approved
based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the
Florida Building Code related content and until a correct timeline is
submitted to the Education Administrator Motion: Kevin Flanagan Second: Ken Gregory Discussion: Michael Clark stated that this course was
also deferred at the November 2012 ED POC Meeting because a 10 question exam
was missing, and the word “advanced” was not in the course title. He further
stated that those issues have been rectified.
He also stated that after his review he found two minor typographical
errors: slide 28 (“fi_re” should be “fire”) and on slide 34 (“tire” should be
“fire”). He also found that a timeline allocating minutes to specific areas
of instruction was missing. A “timeline” statement was included in the
syllabus stating that this course is an hour long. However the required
allocation of minutes is missing. Approved Unanimously Course: Wind Mitigation Gable End Procedures and Forms Provider: FRSA – Fl. Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond.
Cont. Assn. Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 544.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Drew Smith Discussion: Michael Clark stated that this course was
deferred at the November ED POC meeting because a final exam was missing,
on slide 17 the mention of ACSE requirements being met was missing, and also
the course title was missing the word “advanced.” He stated that all of the
issues identified in the November ED POC meeting had been rectified. Mr.
Clark also stated that this course was not accredited and submitted in its
final form into the BCIS until January 16, 2013, four days after the agenda
deadline of January 12, 2013. Mr. Clark stated this course history was the
same as course number 541.0, which the ED POC had already reviewed. Lisa Pate with FRSA, the training provider for this course, stated
that, after believing she had uploaded the materials on December 7, 2012, she
started the process of re-uploading on January 11, 2013 and was still having
technical issues on January 12, 2013 (the deadline), then contacted Michael
Clark. Approved Unanimously Course: Advanced Florida Building Code: Understanding
the Florida Building Code – Energy - Internet Provider: BCIC LLC Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 558.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Kevin Flanagan Second: Drew Smith Discussion: None. Approved Unanimously |
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7.) |
Review administratively approved
updated courses for recommendation to the Commission Course: 2010
Advanced FBC Understanding the Florida Energy Code Provider: BCIC LLC Accreditor: Bill
Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 443.1 Motion: Course approved
based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the
Florida Building Code related content Motion: Ken
Gregory Second: Kevin
Flanagan Discussion: The
Chair asked Michael Clark if this course was the same as course number 558.0.
Mr. Clark stated that the course material was the same for both courses, but
one course was an online course and the other was an instructor led course. Approved Unanimously |
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8.) |
Review administratively approved
self affirmed updated courses for recommendation to the Commission None Pending |
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9.) |
Education Administrator activity
report Discussion: Cam Fentriss stated that there were few public inquiries, which
she noted is usual with the 2010 FBC in effect and few licensure renewal
deadlines pending. She reminded everyone of the training grant money that is
available for both association and energy related training. She also stated
that the course histories for advanced courses 541.0, 544.0, and 270.0, which
had already been discussed---were attached to this report. FBC Education Administrator Report January 22, 2013
A. Provided administrative support
for FBC Education POC for November 19, 2012 and January 11, 2013 meetings B. Drafted minutes for FBC
Education POC November 19, 2012 and January 11, 2013 meetings C. Prepared agenda for FBC
Education POC meeting on January 11 and 28, 2013 meetings D. Inquiries from the public November 14, 2012 to
January 21, 2013 as follows: 5 inquiries: 2
telephone; 1 email; 2 telephone and email Category of inquirers: 1 Provider 1 Licensee
1 Contractor 1 Utility company 1 Consumer Types of Inquiries: 1 Mechanical Code 1 HVAC code requirements 2 Course providers 1 DBPR board application process E. We have training grant money
available generally described here: Association training: -- Advanced codes courses -- $40.00 per hour per attendee
for first hour -- $35.00 per hour per attendee
for each hour after the first hour -- Maximum of 50 persons per
training session -- Total of $230,000 available,
first come, first served Energy training: -- Specified courses (FBC courses,
already developed and approved) -- Must be delivered by
instructors who have had FSEC train-the-trainer -- $25.98 per attendee for 2.5
hours of training -- Persons trained must be
contractors or building officials (for grant funding) -- Total of $100,000 available,
first come, first served F. Information attached on three
courses on January 28, 2013 Education POC agenda. Accreditation and
application submittal deadline was January 12, 2013, and this is indicated in
each listing in bold and underline in the attached. FBC Course Number 270.0 by Adcox
Group
Note: Some entries below reflect provider effort to respond to
request posted in note section on BCIS, submission, then inability to upload
modified/corrected/revised materials. This problem was eventually cured by
uploading materials first, then responding to request in note section on
BCIS. Entry in bold and underlined shows date provider ready,
willing, and able and had attempted to upload modified/corrected/revised
materials. 11-21-12 Course submitted 12-7-12 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 1-11-13 Administrator note: needs general update 1-11-13 Jim Hammers email to MRC stating that course
needs to be reset to “Needs More Info” 1-11-13 Application reset to allow upload of
changes/information 1-11-13 Provider not able to upload 1-11-13 Changes submitted by
provider 1-11-13 More information requested by accreditor 1-11-13 Information submitted by provider 1-12-13 Provider email to MRC stating difficulty when
uploading materials 1-12-13 Deadline for accreditation
and application submittal 1-14-13 Provider email to MRC stating that course
materials still not uploaded and called someone for help 1-14-13 Provider call to MRC asking for more help 1-14-13 MRC call to provider trying to identify issue
re upload 1-14-13 Accreditor email to provider acknowledging
uploaded and approval 1-14-13 Provider email to accreditor stating course
appeared uploaded, but BCIS would not let him upload 1-14-13 Accreditor email to provider asking for notice
when course is uploaded so he can accredit 1-14-13 Provider call to MRC stating still having
upload issues 1-14-13 Provider email to accreditor stating BCIS would
not upload corrected materials, but would re-upload original non-corrected materials 1-14-13
Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 1-15-13 Administrator note: requesting provider upload
materials 1-15-13 Provider email to MRC asking when to try to
upload again 1-15-13 Application reset to allow upload of
changes/information 1-15-13 MRC email to provider that course has been
reset and try to upload again 1-15-13 Provider email to MRC stating could not upload
materials 1-15-13 Provider not able to upload 1-15-13 Information
submitted by provider 1-15-13 MRC email to DBPR tech help stating course was
sent to accreditor so MRC could not reset 1-15-13 MRC call to DBPR tech help asking for options
for assistance 1-15-13 Provider call to MRC stating still could not
upload 1-15-13 Provider email to MRC stating could not upload
course materials 1-15-13 MRC call to provider about status 1-16-13 MRC email to DBPR tech help asking for help
with course 270.0 1-16-13 DBPR tech help email to MRC asking that
accreditor place course in “Needs More Info” mode 1-16-13 Provider email to accreditor asking accreditor
to place course in “Needs More Info” 1-16-13 Accreditor email to provider stating that he
accredited the course accidentally 1-16-13 Provider email that accreditor is ready to
accredit again 1-16-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 1-17-13 Administrator note: requesting change DCA to
DBPR 1-17-13 MRC email that course is again in “Needs More
Info” mode 1-17-13 DBPR tech help email asking if course was in
“Needs More Info” mode 1-17-13 MRC email to DBPR tech help stating that course
is in “Needs More Info” mode 1-17-13 Application reset to allow upload of
changes/information 1-17-13 Provider call to MRC stating his frustrations
1-17-13 Information submitted by provider 1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking if he tried again
to upload 1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking for request to have
270.0 placed on agenda 1-17-13 MRC call to DBPR tech help asking if other
options are available re uploading of materials 1-17-13 Request by provider
to place course on January 28 POC agenda 1-17-13 Email from provider requesting that 270.0 be
placed on POC agenda 1-17-13 Provider call to MRC asking if request sent via
email was sufficient 1-18-13 Provider call to MRC
asking if upload complete FBC
Course Number 541.0 by FRSA Note: Some entries below
reflect provider effort to respond to request posted in note section on BCIS,
submission, then inability to upload modified/corrected/revised materials.
This problem was eventually cured by uploading materials first, then
responding to request in note section on BCIS. Entry in bold and underlined
shows date provider ready, willing, and able and had attempted to upload
modified/corrected/revised materials. 9-12-12 Course submitted 9-18-12 Request by accreditor for provider contact information 9-18-12 Contact information provided by provider 9-19-12 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 11-29-12 Deferred by POC (no "Advanced" in title, slide
29, answers for exam missing) 12-2-12 MRC email to provider and accreditor informing of course
541.0 deferral by ED POC 12-7-12 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information 12-7-12 Provider note:
new presentation attached 12-10-12 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and how to fix
within BCIS 1-9-13 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and deadline of
1-12-13 1-11-13 MRC call to provider asking about status of changes to
materials and reminder of deadline 1-11-13 Provider call to MRC stating that changes will be
made---currently attending board meeting 1-12-13 Deadline for accreditation and
application submittal 1-14-13 Provider call to MRC stating having difficulties uploading
materials 1-14-13 MRC call to provider asking about status 1-15-13 MRC call to provider checking on status 1-15-13 Information submitted by provider 1-16-13 More information requested by accreditor 1-16-13 Accreditor or administrator note: "????" 1-16-13 Information submitted by provider 1-16-13 Provider note: new timeline and outline attached 1-16-13 Provider email stating course information finally updated 1-16-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 1-17-13 Request by provider to place course on January 28 POC
agenda 1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking for request to have 541.0.0
placed on agenda 1-17-13 Provider email requesting that 541.0
be placed on POC agenda FBC Course
Number 544.0 by FRSA
Note: Some entries below
reflect provider effort to respond to request posted in note section on BCIS,
submission, then inability to upload modified/corrected/revised materials.
This problem was eventually cured by uploading materials first, then
responding to request in note section on BCIS. Entry in bold and underlined
shows date provider ready, willing, and able and had attempted to upload
modified/corrected/revised materials. 9-19-12 Course submitted 9-20-12 Accreditor note: course time table does not include times 9-20-12 Provider note: course timeline attached 10-24-12 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 11-29-12 Deferred by POC (no "Advanced" in title, exam
missing, slide 17 needs ASCE 7 information) 12-2-12 MRC email to provider and accreditor informing of course
544.0 deferral by ED POC 12-7-12 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information 12-7-12 Provider note: new presentation
attached 12-10-12 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and how to fix
within BCIS 1-9-13 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and deadline of
1-12-13 1-11-13 MRC call to provider asking about status of changes to
materials and reminder of deadline 1-11-13 Provider call to MRC stating that changes will be
made---currently attending board meeting 1-12-13 Deadline for accreditation and
application submittal 1-14-13 Provider call to MRC stating having difficulties uploading
materials 1-14-13 MRC call to provider asking about status 1-15-13 MRC call to provider checking on status 1-15-13 Information
submitted by provider 1-16-13 Provider email stating course information finally updated
1-16-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh 1-17-13 Request by provider to place course on January 28 POC
agenda 1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking for request to have 544.0
placed on agenda 1-17-13 Provider email requesting that 544.0 be placed on POC
agenda |
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10.) |
Identify future POC member
discussion items The Chair stated that he thought the
computer/electronic problems that providers experienced attempting to upload
materials into the BCIS for advanced courses numbered 541.0, 544.0, and
270.0, should be a topic of discussion at the next ED POC meeting. He also
thought that the POC should discuss how to handle typos as part of the course
approval process. Cam Fentriss stated that another topic of discussion
was brought up at the November, 2012 ED POC meeting by the FBC General
Counsel, April Hammonds, which was the 23 calendar day course
accreditation/submission deadline, which requires that an advanced course
must be accredited and submitted within the BCIS---23 calendar days prior to
the next FBC Plenary session for an advanced course to be placed on the next
ED POC meeting’s agenda. April Hammonds stated that she does have concerns about
the 23 calendar day requirement. Specifically she stated that “calendar days”
is not necessarily a legal determination, and also she wasn’t sure about the
statutory authority regarding this part of rule language. Ila Jones stated that a training session would be held
in April regarding the role of the accreditor and how providers can better
work within the BCIS. |
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11.) |
General public comment No public comment was given. |
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12.) |
Summary and review of meeting work products
and adoption of recommendations for submittal to the commission Recommended Commission Actions
The Education POC considered and recommends the following: The following new courses are recommended for APPROVAL: Course: 2010 Florida Building Code Accessibility Provider: FRSA – Fl. Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond.
Cont. Assn. Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 541.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Kevin Flanagan Approved Unanimously Course: 2010 FBC – ENERGY CONSERVATION Provider: Florida Air Conditioning Apprenticeship
Association Accreditor: BCIC LLC BCIS Course Number: 548.0 Motion: Course should be deleted from the
agenda because it was previously denied at the November 2012 ED
POC Meeting Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Drew Smith Approved Unanimously Course: Advanced Building Code (Online) Provider: Adcox Group Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 270.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content and after the three identified typos are corrected on
slide one Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Drew Smith Approved Unanimously Course: Fire Protection Systems-Advanced Course Provider: Alarm Association of Florida, Inc. Accreditor: Stay Safe Enterprises BCIS Course Number: 549.0 Motion: Course conditionally approved
based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the
Florida Building Code related content and until a correct timeline is
submitted to the Education Administrator Motion: Kevin Flanagan Second: Ken Gregory Approved Unanimously Course: Wind Mitigation Gable End Procedures and Forms Provider: FRSA – Fl. Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond.
Cont. Assn. Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 544.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Drew Smith Approved Unanimously Course: Advanced Florida Building Code: Understanding
the Florida Building Code – Energy - Internet Provider: BCIC LLC Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 558.0 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Kevin Flanagan Second: Drew Smith Discussion: None. Approved Unanimously The following administratively approved updated course is
recommended for APPROVAL: Course: 2010 Advanced FBC Understanding the Florida
Energy Code Provider: BCIC LLC Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh BCIS Course Number: 443.1 Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content Motion: Ken Gregory Second: Kevin Flanagan Approved Unanimously |