January
Education POC Meeting Minutes - Draft
Telephone Conference Call Number 1-888-808-6959,
Access Code: 1967168
In Person Attendance: Room 250L,
January 29, 2010
POC Members Present: Dick Browdy (Chair), Jon Hamrick, Herminio Gonzalez, Tony Grippa
POC Member(s) Absent: Ken Gregory
Meeting
Attendees Identified:
Sharon Mignardi
Med Kopczynski Ila
Jones
Alex Kobyrn Larry
Schneider
John Faranelli Michael
Clark
Jack Glenn
Meeting was
called to order at 10:16 a.m. January
29, 2010
1. Review and approval of the January 2010 Agenda
Motion: To approve as submitted
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
2. Review and approval of December 2009 Minutes
Motion: To approve as submitted
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
3. Review pending accredited courses for
recommendation to the Commission
Course: Advanced 2007
FBC Bonding Metal Framing Members
Provider: Jake Leahy’s
Electrical Code Connection
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course
Number: 403.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Advanced
Provider:
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course
Number: 395.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that the picture in slide # 23 gives the impression
that access to the building is limited and that protruding objects along the
sidewalk may also impede access. He also stated that the word “compliant” is so
obvious on the slide, that the word itself should be removed as people may get
the wrong idea that everything depicted in the picture is indeed compliant,
which he felt was not the case.
Sharon
Mignardi, the accreditor of record for the course, stated that the picture for
the slide was taken at the University of Florida, that the FBC Accessibility
TAC had approved this and the other slides, and that she felt that this slide
would be beneficial for discussion during this particular course between the
instructor and participants, regarding what may or may not be compliant. She
further stated that if this slide was changed, that it would also have to be
changed by all other providers offering this course. The Chair asked for a
motion.
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and also subject to
clarification of the picture in slide # 23 regarding accessibility to the
building and sidewalk egress, by the instructor during this course offering.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Advanced
Provider:
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course
Number: 404.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that the picture in slide # 14 gives the impression
that access to the building is limited and that protruding objects along the
sidewalk may also impede access. He also stated that the word “compliant” is so
obvious on the slide, that the word itself should be removed as people may get
the wrong idea that everything depicted in the picture is indeed compliant,
which he felt was not the case.
Sharon
Mignardi, the accreditor of record for the course, stated that the picture for
the slide was taken at the University of Florida, that the FBC Accessibility
TAC had approved this and the other slides, and that she felt that this slide
would be beneficial for discussion during this particular course between the
instructor and participants regarding what may or may not be compliant. She
further stated that if this slide was changed, that it would also have to be
changed by all other providers offering this course. The Chair asked for a
motion.
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and also subject to
clarification of the picture in slide # 14 regarding accessibility to the
building and sidewalk egress, by the instructor during this course offering.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Chapter 11,
Energy Efficiency
Provider:
Accreditor: JC Code and
Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course
Number: 398.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Online
Required Advanced Code 2010
Provider: Palm
Construction School, Inc.
Accreditor: JC Code and
Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course
Number: 396.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that the language on slide # 63 was incorrect.
Specifically, the language stated that “wire glass is not permitted to be used
in fire doors”. He says that is not correct and that the correct reference
should state that “standard wire glass is not permitted”.
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and on slide # 63, subject to
the addition of the word “standard”---to be placed in front of “wire glass not
permitted”.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Required
Advanced Code 2010
Provider: Palm
Construction School, Inc.
Accreditor: JC Code and
Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course
Number: 379.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that the language on slide # 63 was incorrect.
Specifically, the language stated that “wire glass is not permitted to be used
in fire doors”. He says that is not correct and that the correct reference
should state that “standard wire glass is not permitted”.
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and on slide # 63, subject to
the addition of the word “standard”---to be placed in front of “wire glass not
permitted”.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
4. Review administratively approved updated advanced
courses for recommendation to Commission
None pending
5. Review pending accreditor applications for
recommendation to the Commission
None pending
6. Discuss draft rule language to allow self affirmation
by providers, for advanced courses requiring minor technical changes, instead
of the currently required full accreditation process.
The discussion
specifics are located below, as part of the Education Administrator’s report.
See “First Draft – Proposed
Changes to Rule 9B – 70.002 Relating to Self Affirmation”, and the ensuing
conversation specifics noted below it.
7. Education Administrator activity report
A. Provided administrative support for FBC
Education POC December 4, 2009 meeting
B. Drafted minutes for FBC Education POC December
4, 2009
C. Prepared agenda for FBC Education POC meeting on
January 29, 2010
D. Inquiries from the public from December 4, 2009 to
January 26, 2010 as follows:
22
inquiries: 2 telephone and email; 5
telephone only; 15 email only
Category of inquirers:
6
Architect 9
Providers 3 Engineer
1 Consumer/general public 2 Contractor 1 Modular inspector
Types of Inquiries:
5 Core 7 Provider question(s)
6 Advanced Accessibility 1 Construction lien law
1 Modular
inspection 2 Advance codes
E.
Legislation for 2010 session (contact
SB 648 - Relating to Building Safety (Bennett)
(this should be “the” building codes bill for 2010 session)
HB 663 - Relating to Building Safety (Aubuchon) (companion to SB 648 above)
SB 266 - Relating to Department of Community
Affairs (Bennett) (shell bill)
SB 268 - Relating to Department of Community Affairs (Bennett)
(shell bill)
SB 270 - Relating to Florida Building Code (Bennett) (shell bill)
SB 272 - Relating to Florida Building Code (Bennett) (shell bill)
SB 846 - Relating to Fire Sprinklers (Bennett)
SB 648 is scheduled for its first hearing on
February 2, 2010 in Senate Regulated Industries Committee. There will be amendments. Note: there are two provisions in the bill
amending sections 481.215 and 481.313, Florida Statutes, to remove the core
course requirement. These changes were
made in the 2009 session in HB 425, so what is in SB 648 is wrong and no longer
needed.
SB 266-272 are “shell” bills meaning they do not
contain anything – they simply express legislative intent to change the law on
the subject as specified. These bills
are placeholders and may not even be used.
If scheduled for hearing, substantive legislation will be amended onto
the bill at its first committee hearing.
SB 846 relates to fire sprinklers and amends the
Florida Building Code, so more could be added to this bill.
F. First draft of
proposed changes to Rule 9B-70.002 for discussion at the end of report. (See
Below Item G.)
G. New item – concern
about course applications submitted, accreditor selected, and either delayed or
no response from the accreditor. BCIS
does not provide a notice to the administrator at this point, and some
providers do not follow up (some do not know what to expect).
FIRST DRAFT – Proposed
changes to Rule 9B-70.002 relating to “self affirmation”
Proposed changes (with additions underlined,
deletions stricken through, and in bold) include:
- Correct a reference from (4)(f) to (3)(f)
- Clarify language in subsection (3)(f) relating to
accreditation of updated courses
-
Add new subsection (3)(g) to allow administrative approval (without
accreditation) of a course under any of the following circumstances:
- Correct or update a
reference
- Correct or update a
table or diagram
- Correct or update a
quoted provision of code, law, or administrative rule
Requires listing of
the exact change, the specific location of the change, and the reason for the
change (correction or update). With the
exception of accreditation, provides for processing of course in the same way
as is an updated course (administrative approval, review and approval by Education
POC, then ratification by Florida Building Commission).
*- Add new subsection (3)(h) to specify that a change in
course format requires accreditation
(f) On or
before the effective date of changes to the Florida Building Code, providers
shall either designate on the Building Code Information System at
www.floridabuilding.org that the course is not affected by the code changes or
update the existing accredited courses affected by the code changes and submit
for accreditation. If the course is not affected by the code changes, the
course’s status shall remain active. The code version that initiated the update
and reaccreditation process must be noted on the application. Accreditation of revisions to approved
accredited courses and courses in alternative formats to
approved accredited courses
shall be accomplished in the same manner as described in paragraphs (a) through
(f) hereof, except that only the revision submitted shall be subject to review and
these courses shall be approved by the administrator of the education program
subject to ratification by the Florida Building Commission.
(g) If an
approved accredited course requires revision to correct or update a reference,
table, diagram, or quoted provision of code, law, or administrative rule, the
training provider may submit the revised course and complete form [INSERT FORM
NUMBER] listing the exact change, the specific location of the change, and
reason for the change in the course and affirm this is the only change. These courses shall be approved by the
administrator of the education program subject to ratification by the
(h) A change to the format of
an approved accredited course must be submitted for accreditation
Discussion - The Chair stated that the phrase
“these courses” in the last sentence of paragraph (g) should be rephrased to
say “The changes/modifications to these courses…”.
Larry Schneider asked if the word “delivery” could be
inserted in front of “format” in paragraph (h)? He stated that he just wanted
the concept of “format” to be clear. Cam Fentriss stated that the term
“alternative” has been used in the past, but that she would research this.
During the ensuing discussion, Sharon Mignardi stated
that the Accessibility course she accredited should have been administratively
approved. She said that their existed examples of this happening in the past
because the content of this course has not changed and that it wasn’t required
to be accredited in the past because it was being sold by DCA.
The Chair asked the POC if this issue was procedural in
nature, or legal?
Cam Fentriss suggested that both Sharon Mignardi and Med
Kopczenski submit a written request to review this issue regarding the
accreditation of the Accessibility course (and under what conditions). This
request would then be reviewed by the FBC Counsel, Jim Richmond. If this turns
out to be a policy or procedural issue, then it will be discussed by the
Education POC as a future agenda item. If it becomes a legal issue, then
direction will be sought from counsel.
The Chair stated that he also thought that langaguage in
paragraph (g) should be more specific, and state that “self affirmation does
not apply to substantive changes in the code”. He further stated that self
affirmation exists to address updated/changed reference type of information.
Sharon Mignardi asked if
courses that end up as self affirmed---would they go through the
accreditation process, or a separate process.
Cam stated that one other issue had occurred, which was
that a course was uploaded into the BCIS in October, 2009, to be accredited, an
accreditor was chosen, then no action regarding the course was taken by the
accreditor and the provider was never notified that no action was taken.
The Chair stated that a Rule Development Workshop should be
scheduled/noticed to occur during April’s FBC Plenary Session, to address the
proposed language changes to 9B – 70.002
8. Identify future POC
member discussion items
Cam
Fentriss will research whether the accreditation and subsequent approval
process of the current Accessibility Course is an issue to be handled legally
by counsel, or procedurally by the Education POC.
John
Faranelli asked the Chair if their was anything formal he needed to submit to
the POC regarding the changes he needed to make to his courses. The Chair said
nothing was required, just make the necessary changes.
9. General public comment
No
public comment was offered.
10. Summary and review of
meeting work products/action items, assignments, and next steps
The
Chair issued no other work assignments.
Adjourn (Adjourned at 11:03 am.)
Motion: To adjourn
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Tony Grippa
Approved Unanimously
The Education
POC considered and recommends the following:
The
following new courses are recommended for approval:
Course: Advanced 2007
FBC Bonding Metal Framing Members
Provider: Jake Leahy’s
Electrical Code Connection
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course
Number: 403.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced
Provider:
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course
Number: 395.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and also subject to
clarification of the picture in slide #23 regarding accessibility to the
building and sidewalk egress, by the instructor during this course offering.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Advanced
Provider:
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course
Number: 404.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and also subject to
clarification of the picture in slide # 14 regarding accessibility to the
building and sidewalk egress, by the instructor during this course offering.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Chapter 11,
Energy Efficiency
Provider:
Accreditor: JC Code and
Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course
Number: 398.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Online
Required Advanced Code 2010
Provider: Palm
Construction School, Inc.
Accreditor: JC Code and
Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course
Number: 396.0
Motion Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only
verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content, and on slide # 63, subject to the addition
of the word “standard”---to be placed in front of “wire glass not permitted”.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
Course: Required
Advanced Code 2010
Provider: Palm
Construction School, Inc.
Accreditor: JC Code and
Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course
Number: 379.0
Motion:
Course approved based on the FBC accreditation
process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related
content, and on slide # 63, subject to
the addition of the word “standard”---to be placed in front of “wire glass not
permitted”.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Herminio
Gonzalez
Approved
Unanimously
The following
courses are recommended for administrative approval:
None
Pending
Note: This document is available in
alternate formats upon request to the Department of Community Affairs, Codes
and Standards,