Florida Building Commission

Education POC Minutes

June 2007

 


POC Members Present: Dick Browdy (Chair), Jon Hamrick, Pete Tagliarini, Herminio Gonzalez, Steve Bassett

 

 

Meeting Attendees:

Bill Dumbaugh                                              Ila Jones

Jack Glenn                                                     Bob Boyer

Joe Belcher                                                    Larry Schneider

Jim Richmond                                               Don Fuchs

Cam Fentriss                                                 Med Kopczynski

Sharon Mignardi                                           Michael Clark

Francisco R. Franco                                      Igbar Sharld

 

 

                                   

Meeting called to order at 8:30 am, June 26, 2007                      

     

 

 

1. Review and Approval of June 2007 Agenda

 

Motion: Pete Tagliarini

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

2. Review and Approval of May 2007 Minutes

 

Motion: Steve Bassett

2nd:  Pete Tagliarini

Approved Unanimously

 

 

3. Discuss and review the applicability of the Product Approval Process as a possible way to revoke an accreditor’s status.

 

The Chair stated that to begin with, reasons need to be cited as to what the accreditor has done that would be considered non-compliant. The Chair referenced the 3 reasons that the General Counsel cited at the May POC meeting. Those reasons were:

  • The accreditor providing a fraudulent application
  • The accreditor having a trade license revoked and not reporting this to the POC
  • The actual act of accrediting not occurring

 

Cam Fentriss stated that another possible reason might be some type of “conflict of interest”.

 

The Chair asked, “who has standing to initiate an investigation?”

 

Cam Fentriss replied that in the 9B – 70 language, the Education Administrator will audit some courses, which could lead to an accreditor complaint, and she also said that providers may complain.

 

Jim Richmond stated that a disinterested party would be needed to conduct the actual investigation.

 

The Chair stated that we need to establish due diligence regarding the validity of the complaint.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez asked that if we are revoking an accreditor’s status, can we also reinstate said acceditor after a period of time.

 

Jim Richmond said that an accreditor could become re-approved after they prove that they are now in compliance.

 

Commissioner Tagliarini asked, “If we receive a report that something is wrong with an accreditor, and it turns out that we do revoke his status as an accreditor, then what is the process that will be followed?”

 

Jim Richmond replied that generally:

  • The Department will be informed of a complaint
  • POC evaluates and takes to the Commission
  • Commission agrees to investigate (or not)
  • Investigation occurs
  • The findings go back to the Commission, and if they agree with the complaint, then an Administrative Complaint is drafted
  • Goes to a hearing where an administrative judge rules
  • Goes back to the Commission for their action

 

The Chair asked about the timeframe for this process.

 

Jim Richmond stated that this will take at least 60 days, unless there is a dispute of material fact, which will make the process longer. Also, if there is a determination of fraud, then it goes through a DOAH hearing.

 

The Chair asked, “What happens to an accreditor during this process?”

 

Cam Fentriss stated that at least the Commission can hold off approving any courses that the accreditor was accrediting.

 

 Med Kopczynski asked if an actual course can be held hostage as a result of this process, since most of Jim’s reasons for initiating action against an accreditor are not directly tied to a course.

 

Jim Richmond replied that each course an accreditor is accrediting would be looked at individually, through the investigation.

 

The Chair stated that the provider could very well be a victim in this process.

 

Commissioner Bassett asked what the difference would be between something considered serious versus something not so serious, when looking at revoking an accreditor’s status.

 

Jim Richmond stated that the process can be stopped at any time to deal with trivial things, rather taking it to the end for all complaints.

 

Ila Jones suggested that the answer to this question be part of the upcoming Building Code Compliance and Mitigation Program contract.

 

 

Motion: To have the Education Administrator, working with the General Counsel, draft language that would identify the steps needed to revoke an accreditor’s status. This process should use the product approval process as its model. The language should be presented at the next POC meeting.

Motion: Pete Tagliarini

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

 

4. Discuss SB 2836 language (General Counsel comments) regarding possible changes to the current accreditation process.

 

The Chair asked about the status of the final language regarding SB 2836, specifically as it relates to the Commission approving advanced courses at their meetings.

 

Jim Richmond stated that legislative staff, in their exuberance, unstruck the verbiage regarding the Commission’s role of approving advanced courses. So the bottom line is, for the time being, the Commission will continue to approve advanced courses after they move through the accreditation process. He stated that their was no ill intent on the part of the legislative staff who actually did this.

 

 

5. Discuss the status of DCA developed and currently accredited courses (E.g., Indoor Environmental Quality) that do not meet the 50 % rule regarding building code content.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez asked, “What options do we have regarding these courses?”

 

The Chair stated that one option is to do nothing with these courses, then when they come back up at some point for re-accreditation, the 50% rule is applied and the course becomes extinct.

 

Med Kopczynski stated that there are at least 7 DCA courses that probably don’t meet the 50% code content rule. He further stated that it is his strong belief, and for the public record, that these courses should not be sold by DCA anymore.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez asked of we could put a disclaimer with these 7 courses when they are sold, stating that they don’t meet the 50% rule. He believes that these courses should be grand fathered and have the disclaimer attached to them at point of sale.

 

Commissioner Bassett stated that if we put this disclaimer with a course, then the various licensing boards won’t approve the course.

 

Commissioner Hamrick stated that he thought as Commissioner Gonzalez, that the courses in question should be grand fathered and when they come back for re-accreditation, then the 50% rule would be used.

 

Cam Fentriss asked how the disclaimer should be phrased. She then suggested that it might say something like, “This course might not be approved/accredited in the future because it does not meet the 50% rule regarding the amount of code content”.

 

 Commissioner Bassett asked if that when a course is bought, the disclaimer could say two things…that this course might need to be modified using the 2005, 2006 Supplements to the Fla. Building Code and that the amount of code content might need to be added.

 

Sharon Mignardi added that some current providers are upset when they purchase a DCA course and find out that they will have to update the contents.

 

The Chair stated that the POC has two choices to choose from:

  • They can choose to sell the course with a disclaimer
  • They can choose to yank the courses because they are non-compliant with the 50% rule

 

Motion: To continue to sell the DCA courses with a disclaimer that states that the code content of the courses “might need to be updated using the 2005 and 2006 Supplements to the Florida Building Code and that the amount of code content might be insufficient to meet the 50 % rule, so actual code content should be added to the course.”

Motion: Steve Bassett

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

6. Discuss and review the DCA Draft RFP language which emanated from SB 2836.

 

The Chair read through the entire scope of work and then asked for comments.

 

Ila Jones suggested that in Task 3, that new verbiage should be added where it now read, “shall develop, or caused to be developed”. Cam Fentriss agreed with Ila’s proposed change.

 

Cam also suggested that at the end of Task 3, that language be added that says, “specific to the Florida Building Code”.

 

Jack Glenn asked that in the Purpose Section, why aren’t all of the qualifications listed as there are in SB 2836.

 

Ila Jones stated that the intent was---when reading the current language that one would refer back to SB 2836. She further stated that she had no problem including all of the qualification language in the Purpose Section.

 

Med Kopczynski stated that adding all of the qualifications in the Purpose Section, would also make more realistic the potential for a competitive bidding process for this contract.

 

Commissioner Bassett asked if the current Education Administrator’s duties would fall under this contract. The Chair stated that yes, the administrator’s duties would fall under the umbrella of this contract.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez asked what “development” in the 2nd to the last paragraph meant?

 

Ila Jones stated that it should read “education course development”.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez also asked if the upfront workshops noted in Task One would be held around the state.

 

The Chair stated that they would be noticed, held in various locations, and would be formally reported about.

 

Cam Fentriss stated that the intent of this task is not to hold a bunch of meetings, on top of Commission meetings. Rather, these meetings should be held with Commission meetings.

 

The Chair followed with the intent is not to form a new council.

 

Commissioner Bassett wanted to know who will pay for these meetings. The Chair answered by stating that the bidders of the contract will say what they will pay for and what they won’t pay for. That is part of the bid evaluation process.

 

Med Kopczynski asked what the term related meant regarding “3 years of related experience with building code” or “3 years of related experience with educational program development?”

 

The Chair responded that that question will be answered when the bids are evaluated.

 

Cam Fentriss suggested that language be added stating that “any courses developed under this contract should remain the property of the State of Florida

 

Motion: To approve the scope of work as amended. Specific amendments include:

  • Task 3 - “or caused to be developed”
  • Task 3 – “specific to the Fla. Building Code”
  • Purpose Section – List all qualifications as stated in SB 2836
  • Task 7 – “education course development”
  • Task 3 – “any courses---property of State of Florida

Motion: Steve Bassett

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

7. Review Pending “Accreditor” Applications for Recommendation to the Commission

(None pending)         

 

8.  Education Administrator Activity Report

 

The Education Administrator reported to the POC what activities he performed between May 10, 2007 and June 22, 2007. The following areas were reported on:

  • Phone calls handled
  • Emails handled
  • Correspondence written and sent
  • Meetings attended

No comments were made or offered about the reports contents.

 

 

9. Identify future POC member discussion items.

 

Cam Fentriss stated that we need more accreditors. She said that she is working with BASF to develop some outreach information to try and convince retired or semi-retired licensees to become accreditors.

 

Med Kopczynski stated that it is difficult to recruit accreditors because not many courses are currently being accredited currently, so there is no money to be made.

 

Cam Fentriss stated that through BASF, they are trying to figure out ways to have more advanced courses developed. Eventually, she stated that she would like to see all CE courses run through an accreditation process.

 

The Chair stated that the accreditation process is an excellent model.

 

 

10. General Public Comment

 

There was no other general public comment

 

 

11. Summary and Review of Meeting Work Products/Action Items, Assignments, and Next Steps

 

No other assignments were given by the Chair.

 

Adjourn

Motion: To adjourn (at 9:42 am)

Motion: Steve Bassett

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

Recommended Commission Actions

 

The following course, under the ‘Accredited, Pending FBC Approval” status, were approved by the POC.

 

Course: Required Advanced Code

Provider: Palm Construction School

Accreditor: JDB Code Services, Inc.

BCIS #: 231

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

 

 

 

 

Updated Course Approvals

The courses listed below have been updated with the 2006 Code Supplement. The chair listed all of the courses and asked for a Consent Agenda approval for all of the courses.

 

Motion: To approve as submitted

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

Course and #               Provider                      Accreditor                   Date of Approval

 

Required Advanced    Palm Construction      JDB Code                    5/14/07

Code, Classroom        School                         Services, Inc. 

 (# 233)

 

Advanced Building     Tech Knowledge         BCIC LLC                   6/01/07

Structural Summary                          

For 06 (#135.1)                      

 

 

 

 

Note: This document is available in alternate formats upon request to the Department of Community Affairs, Codes and Standards, 255 Shumard Oak Blvd., Tallahassee, Fl. 32399, (850) 487 – 1824.