Florida Building Commission

Education POC Minutes

June 2008

 

POC Members Present: Dick Browdy (Chair), Jon Hamrick, Herminio Gonzalez, Steve Bassett

 

Meeting Attendees:

Robert Andrews                                             Bill Norkunas

Jack Glenn                                                      Alex Kobryn

Jane Waddel                                                   Larry Schneider

Michael Clark                                     Lorraine Ross

Don Fuchs                                                      Jim Westphal                                        

Shelley Siegel                                      Sharon Mignardi

Ila Jones                                                         Tarry Baker

Med Kopczynski                                            Bill Dumbaugh

John O’Conner                                               Doug Buck

Donny Pittman                                                Jim Heise

Cam Fentriss

 

 

 

 Meeting called to order at 8:00 am. on June 24, 2008

 

                       

1. Review and Approval of the June 2008 Agenda

 

Motion: The chair moved agenda item #8 to become agenda item #5, then agenda item #5 becomes agenda item #6, #6 becomes #7, and #7 becomes #8, with the rest of the items remain as initially numbered.

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously As Amended

 

2. Review and Approval of May 2008 Minutes

Motion: To approve as submitted

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

2nd:  John Hamrick

Approved Unanimously

 

 

3. Discuss the status of the instructor led Four Hour Administrative Core Course

 

The Chair asked that Ila Jones address this item. As background information, Ila stated that the 4 hour administrative core course is under the authority of the DCA and is the only course with one course number and one provider number. She further stated that 839 individuals have taken the 4 hour core course, with 342 taking the course as an instructor led course, and 497 taking the course as an online course.

 

Ila further stated that DCA can’t update the reporting module in the BCIS for training providers to submit attendance numbers for the 4 hour instructor led course. To update that reporting module, Ila said that it would cost between $40,000.00 and $50,000.00, and that DCA couldn’t justify funding that update with the small number of attendees actually taking the course. As a result, this scenario would jeopardize the continued existence of this course as an instructor led course.

 

The Chair asked Ila what was the income from the core course?

 

Ila said that over time DCA has recouped the development costs of approximately $100,000.000. Also, DCA has collected less that $4,000.00 for this course for FY 2007 -   2008.

 

Commissioner Hamrick asked if the $10.00 fee was still being collected. Ila stated that

for some of the professions the fee is being collected---and for some it is not being collected.

 

Cam Fentriss stated that BASF was trying to stay out in front of this issue and has been talking with providers, associations, and others about this---to find alternatives to what currently exists. Cam said that one suggestion that has surfaced was to set up stations at association meetings and conferences so that licensees could take the online version of the course at those meetings, instead of the instructor led version.

 

Jane Waddel stated that she felt that only offering this course as an online course would punish some contractors who were not very computer literate. She gave some examples of contractors having technology issues. She also said that some contractors are not necessarily aware of the core course as a requirement---and stated that some DBPR employees are not aware.

 

The Chair asked for options to the 4 hour instructor led core course.

 

Ila Jones said that an updated version of the instructor led course does not currently exist.

 

Cam Fentriss raised the question of---should the core course be phased out as a requirement for licensees.

 

Larry Schneider said that he agrees with Cam and thinks that the core should be eliminated as a requirement---and further stated that licensees currently learn general information about the building code and the FBC through their other CE courses.

 

Commissioner Bassett stated that the Board of Professional Engineers really doesn’t know who has taken the core course and who has not.

 

The Chair agreed and stated that the issue now is---should the POC eliminate the core course as a requirement for licensees. He said that this should be a specific agenda item for the next POC meeting.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez raised the question that if the core is eliminated, would those who haven’t taken it when they were supposed to be penalized.

 

Jane Waddel stated that a consideration in this discussion is that the core requirement is stated in the related statutory language of some of the professional boards.

 

The Chair stated that because of these many, related unanswered questions surrounding this issue (to remove the 4 hour core course as a CE licensing requirement), this discussion needs to occur (with input from the general counsel) at the next POC meeting as a separate agenda item.

 

 

 

4. Discuss and review the draft of the downloadable Manual/Toolkit for training providers regarding “training course development guidelines”

 

The Chair asked the Education Administrator to address this item. The administrator stated that this manual was developed for training providers, especially new or inexperienced providers, as a guide for course submission, accreditation, and actual advanced course development. He further stated that the manual was developed in two sections. The first section contains explanations of all of those processes having to do with the submission and accreditation of advanced courses. All of those processes are cited in Rule 9B-70. The second section of the manual is a description and/or explanation as to how to develop a training course from scratch, using a model of instructional systems design methodology.

 

Alex Kobryn stated that he felt that this manual adds a layer of beauracracy for training providers to suffer through.

 

The administrator suggested that this manual was developed strictly to help providers, not to be a set of rules that all must follow.

 

Cam Fentriss said that all editorial comments should be sent to her or the Education Administrator.

 

The Chair stated that the idea behind the manual was to elevate the quality of the design of current and future courses, which should be a worthy goal to pursue.

No further action was taken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

5. (Moved from item #8) Discuss the General Counsel’s recommendation for rulemaking regarding both the Manual/Toolkit (Advanced course development guidelines) and the Advanced Course Audit Form

 

The Chair asked the general counsel to comment on referencing the manual in rule language.

 

The general counsel stated that as it exists, it should be adopted by rule. He further stated that the FBC can tell providers what they can and can’t do, but that the FBC does not have the authority to tell providers what they should or could do. The FBC doesn’t have the authority, under current language, to give guidelines to providers as to how to develop a course. He stated that another entity (such as BASF) could circulate and distribute this manual as a technical document, but not the Commission or DCA.

 

The Chair stated that the question to consider is---does the Commission want to address the manual through rulemaking or have BASF circulate and distribute this as a technical document. He further stated that the manual would be very cumbersome to deal with in rule, because of the changes that could occur overtime with the information contained in the manual.

 

Med Kopczynski and Bill Dumbaugh both stated that they felt that the manual could be a very useful guide for training providers. They both also said that this should be a BASF document, not referenced in rule.

 

The Chair moved that the manual be published and distributed by BASF. The manual was funded by the Florida Building Commission---and that BASF will work with the general counsel to create the appropriate disclaimer language to be placed on the manual (to include funding language).

 

 

6. Discuss and/or respond to a summary of contract activities and deliverables, for the contract of “The Florida Building Code Compliance and Mitigation Program” to be given by a representative from Building A Safer Florida, Inc.

 

The Chair asked Cam Fentriss to give the contract summary report.

 

Cam stated that the new code changes, transitioning to the 2007 code, for both residential and building is being completed by Eric Stafford and will be available very soon.

 

Cam stated that 9 fact sheets have been updated. The one of those that has been approved is the one on Alarm Systems. She further stated that 4 new fact sheets have been developed regarding green building, such as Green Energy, Green General, and Green Building.

 

Cam said that a scavenger hunt was conducted at the recent BOAF conference. Don Fuchs said that the prizes won at the hunt were a registration for next year’s conference, a set of new code books, or a cd with the new code on it.

 

Cam stated that the next scavenger hunt will happen at the SEBC conference in July. The grand prize at that hunt will be a big screen TV. The idea behind the scavenger hunt is to increase traffic at the vendor booths, especially for the booths regarding green building information.

 

Cam stated that the Design & Construction Forum has met 5-6 times since January. The next meeting will be next week. One of the issues that will be discussed is based on the idea being floated and discussed by the CILB to eliminate all online courses.

 

Med Kopczynski asked if the fact sheets will be available to the public. Ila stated that DCA staff are currently reviewing the fact sheets and that they will soon be available online to the public.

 

 

 

7. Discuss FY 2008 – 2009 budget issues, to at least include the scope of the Education Outreach contract and the possibility of holding FBC Education POC meetings by conference call.

 

Ila Jones stated that as of right now, $50,000.00 has been budgeted for the Education Outreach contract. She also stated that they are looking for another $25,000.00 around the first of the year.

 

Ila also stated that DCA is looking into the possibility of holding POC meetings via tele-conferencing technology. She further stated that the August FBC meeting will be reviewing code amendments and that if it was appropriate, to free up needed meeting space, the Education POC could tele-conference if the agenda was light or mostly procedural.

 

Commissioner Gonzalez asked if the public would be able to participate in these kinds of meetings. Ila answered that they would be able to be involved.

 

Commissioner Bassett stated that he has been involved in tele-conferencing meetings and that it was difficult to keep up with the conversation. He said that it detracts from the quality of the meeting and that face-to-face was much more effective.

 

Med Kopczynski agreed with Commissioner Bassett stating that those kinds of meetings were difficult to attend and contribute to.

 

The Chair stated that this idea to use tele-conferencing technology is strictly as a result of a reduced budget---it is cheaper to meet this way---especially dealing with procedural matters, such as approving courses. The Chair further stated that the POC usually discusses other issues, on top of the normal procedural matters.

No further action was taken.

 

 

8. Discuss the possible affects of the effective date for advanced course updating being moved from October 1, 2008 to December 31, 2008 (if such change is adopted)

 

The Chair stated that the code implementation date has been moved from October 1, 2008, to December 31, 2008. The question to consider---are courses updated to the new date of December 31, or are they updated by the original October 1, 2008, deadline.

 

The general counsel stated that the language was clear, courses were to be updated by the code implementation date, which this year is now December 31, 2008.

 

Don Fuchs asked if providers need to submit courses twice to be accredited (because of possible code changes resulting from the upcoming glitch process), which means that they will have to pay accreditors twice.

 

The Chair stated that the Commission has tried to narrow the glitch process---and not to forget that the idea is to have courses up-to-date with the current code version.

No other action was taken.

 

 

9. Review Pending “Accreditor” Applications for Recommendation to the Commission

(None pending)          

 

 

10.  Education Administrator Activity Report

The Education Administrator reported to the POC what activities he performed between April 22, 2008 and June 9, 2008. The following areas were reported on:

  • Phone calls handled
  • Emails handled
  • Correspondence written and sent
  • Meetings attended
  • Products developed (E.g., Course Audit Form, Draft of Training Course and Toolkit/Manual for Course Development Guidelines)
  • No comments were made or offered about the reports contents.

 

 

11. Identify future POC member discussion items

 

Commissioner Bassett mentioned that he wasn’t sure if he was being re-appointed as a Commissioner, and that he should know very soon.

 

12. General Public Comment

 

Don Fuchs suggested that letters should be sent to providers to let them know that possibly the courses they are currently having accredited could become outdated in a few months if the glitch changes to the 2007 code affect those courses.

 

Larry Schneider suggested that the Education POC should send a letter to the Construction Industry Licensing Board (CILB) informing them that online course technology is the wave of the future, meaning that many courses will be available in an online training format---across all industries, not just the design and construction industry.

 

Cam Fentriss stated that it was her understanding that other entities, such as construction industry related associations, will be educating the CILB as to the importance of online training technology.

 

 

 

13. Summary and Review of Meeting Work Products/Action Items, Assignments, and Next Steps

 

The Chair issued no other work assignments.

 

 

Adjourn (Adjourned at  9:27 am.)

Motion: To adjourn

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

2nd:  Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

 

 

 

 

Recommended Commission Actions

 

The following courses, under the ‘Accredited, Pending FBC Approval” status, were approved by the POC.

 

Course: Advanced 2007 FBC Significant Code Changes

Provider: BCIC LLC

Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh

BCIS #  313.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd: Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

Course: Advanced 2007 Roofing Course Test protocol Standard RAS - 127

Provider: Zara & Associates

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS #  312.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd: Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

Course: Advanced 23 Hour (SREF) Course

Provider: Fla. Department of Education

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS #  309.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Steve Bassett

2nd: Herminio Gonzalez

Approved By Commissioners Browdy, Gonzalez, and Bassett (Commissioner Hamrick abstained)

 

 

Course: Advanced FBC Course – Significant Changes to 2007 FBC Building and the 2007 FBC Residential

Provider: AIA Fla.

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS #  306.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd: Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

Course: Advanced Module Course

Provider: Power Learning Systems

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS #  314.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd: Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

 

Course: Advanced Fla. Building Code: Entrapment Protection

Provider: Fla. Pool and Spa Association/NSPI – Fla.

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS #  307.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd: Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

 

Updated Course Approvals

The courses listed below have been updated with the 2007 Code. The chair listed all of the courses and asked for a Consent Agenda approval for all of the courses.

 

Motion: To approve all courses as submitted

Motion: Jon Hamrick

2nd:  Herminio Gonzalez

Approved Unanimously

 

 

Course and #                Provider                       Accreditor                    Date of Approval

 

FBC Advanced            Design Arts                  BCIC LLC                   5/29/2008

Course: Residential       Seminars, Inc.  

(#310.0)

 

Advanced 2004 FBC   A Plus Construction      BCIC LLC                   5/13/2008

Building/Structural         School, Inc.

Summary

(#305.0)

 

2004 Fl. Building.         Contractor’s Educat.    BCIC LLC                   5/23/2008

Code: Mechanical         Source, Inc.

/Energy Summary

(Internet)

(#308.0)                                  

 

Advanced 2004 FBC   URS Corp.                   BCIC LLC                   4/24/2008

Build./Structural            Training

Summary

(#297.0)

 

Advanced 2004            Termark Technical        BCIC LLC                   4/25/2008

FBC Building/               Institute

Structural

(#298.0)

 

Home Study: FBC        Design Arts                  BCIC LLC                   6/13/2008

Advanced Course         Seminars Inc.

Residential

(263.1)

 

 

Note: This document is available in alternate formats upon request to the Department of Community Affairs, Codes and Standards, 255 Shumard Oak Blvd., Tallahassee, Fl. 32399, (850) 487 – 1824.