Florida Building Commission
Education POC Minutes
July 2006
Members Present: Dick Browdy (Chair), Jon Hamrick, Steve Bassett, Herminio Gonzalez,
Members Absent : Pete Tagliarini
• Review and Approval of July 2006 Agenda
The Agenda was approved as submitted.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Steve Bassett
Approved Unanimously
• Review And Approval of May 2006 Minutes
It was pointed out that in Item # 4, the word “top” should read “to do”. It was also pointed out that in the title of Item # 3, the acronyms UF and BOAF should be separated. The minutes were otherwise approved.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Steven Bassett
Approved Unanimously
• Discuss the Preliminary UF/BOAF Complaint Research Survey Report
Dr. Raymond Issa, with the University of Florida , discussed the survey. He said that it is available on line and part of the agenda package. Dr. Issa stated that the survey was developed with assistance from BOAF and BASF. They reviewed inspector sheets from various building departments for commonalities. The Inspectors identified occurrences of violations, which included framing, roof sheeting, stairs, handrails, and fasteners issues. Other comments also included accessibility issues. He said that hundreds of surveys were sent out and that 33 responses were received back.
Dr. Issa stated that to help avoid future problems more details should be included in plan development and that more education is needed.
The public attendees had some comments about the report. The essence of those comments is included below.
One attendee stated that the title needs to indicate that the survey essentially deals with residential issues and that no questions addressing accessibility were included in the survey. Dr. Issa agreed and said that their should be a separate survey for commercial.
Another attendee said that most education is directed toward commercial and as a result, there is a need for more education in the areas of mechanical, plumbing, & electrical plans examiners and building inspectors.
The POC members also had some comments about the report. The following reflect those comments.
One member stated that their should be some discussion about energy code issues. Electrical inspectors are required under statute to enforce only the National Electrical Code, thus not enforcing the energy code. He further stated that the FBC is sorely in need of courses in both the energy and accessibility codes. As a result, the survey needs to be expanded to include areas other than structural.
Another member said that it would be helpful if the report contained an executive summary. He further recommended that training should increase for licensees with a more narrow scope. He stated that an example would be why should someone who never does framing have to take a framing course? He also said that 33 responses was a pretty good return rate for this type of survey.
Another member commented that the FHB has developed courses for training superintendents, etc. and urged their members to have their people attend those courses.
Another member said that their were no questions in the survey regarding plan reviewers. He further said that their was a previous study for plans examiners. It was based on the perspective of ten inspections and how many violations per category within the inspections. He asked if all municipalities were contacted about this survey and Dr. Issa stated that yes they were.
To summarize the possible changes to the report, it was suggested to create an executive summary, to retitle the survey to more precisely reflect the contents of the document (structural violations), and to add the area of accessibility to the survey questions.
Motion: To accept the report as modified per the discussion
Motion: Steve Bassett
2 nd : Jon Hamrick
Approved Unanimously
• Discuss and Review Language Changes to Chapter 9B-70.002 The discussion will focus on a possible change to the current “Accreditation Process”. Instead of using multiple accreditors, the consideration would be to use one contracted accreditor, chosen through the normal RFP process. The discussion should include the specifics regarding the development of an appropriate RFP
It was stated by the Chair that the reason for this agenda item was to discuss possibilities available to the FBC to address problems with the accreditation process, to include the small number of accreditors that are also providers, which possibly lead to cross-accreditation issues. He further said that a suggestion might be---to find a single entity (individual or firm) that could review and accredit courses.
The following are the essence of the comments about this item from the attending public.
One attendee said that the Electrical Council of Florida, a not for profit entity, strives to bring quality education to its members. They are concerned that one accreditor will further delay the time to gain course approval, and that it might cost more. It was further said that it was too soon to change the current accreditation system.
Another attendee said that any change now might create legal problems in the long run.
Another attendee expressed concern that too much power would rest with one accreditor and that this situation would create an unneeded bureaucracy. From his perspective, the basic goal is to upgrade the level of contractors and installers. Because of this, providers should have the flexibility to address those needs. He felt that one accreditor would create an inflexible situation, where flexibility is required.
Another attendee urged the POC to give the accreditation process the opportunity to streamline itself, with everyone working together. For example he stated that courses need to be properly audited. He strongly urged the POC to forestall any action resulting in changes to the current process.
Another attendee stated that the issue is faulty courses, not faulty accreditors. It was further stated that many accreditors take exception with the suggestion that accreditors are not reviewing courses. It was stated that courses should be audited to find courses that are not accurate, thus not accredited properly.
Another attendee stated that each time a course is approved by the FBC, that the respective licensing board also thoroughly reviews the course.
Another attendee stated that problems would occur if accreditors couldn't accredit each other's courses because not many accreditors are certified to accredit courses in all areas of the construction business. As a result, the pool of accreditors would be reduced drastically for some courses.
A couple of other attendees agreed with those who previously spoke, stating that no changes should take place at this time.
The following reflect the essence of the comments made by POC members about this agenda item.
A couple of members stated that they were reluctant to make any changes at this time.
Another member said that he thought that the current process might be over burdensome for DCA staff. He suggested that we hold a workshop to discuss this issue at the August Commission meeting to look at what can be done to improve the process.
Another member stated that a possible solution would be to move to some administrative review by the state
Motion: No Action at this time
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Steve Bassett
Approved Unanimously
Another issue discussed was the 30 day rule for course placement on the POC agenda. The POC Educational Administrator was placing courses on the agenda if they were placed in the pending file in the BCIS 30 days from the Commission meeting date. However, some providers and accreditors thought the 30 days started when the course was issued a number upon entering the accreditation process. A clarity of accreditation process dates was needed.
The General Counsel stated that the rule anticipated a number to be assigned when a course application is submitted into the accreditation process, so the rule needs to be tweaked to reflect what the process really does.
The following comments were made by the attendees regarding this issue.
One attendee stated that the main issue was certainty and clarity. He further suggested to place all courses that are submitted on the agenda and to pull those courses not accredited before the Commission meeting.
Another attendee stated that there were differences of interpretation and that they needed to be cleared up
Motion: All courses must be accredited completely and placed in the “Pending FBC Action” file on the BCIS, 23 days prior to a Commission meeting, in order to be placed on the Commission's agenda.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd - Steve Bassett
Approved Unanimously
• Discuss and Review the Letter to be Sent to All Training Providers Telling Them When They Will Assume Sole Responsibility For Course Development
The members agreed that the date to send the letter to all providers would be September 1, 2006 . The chair suggested that where it said, “DCA will no longer develop new course materials”, that a phrase be added at this point to say, “unless authorized by 9B-70, F.A.C., which gives the Commission the authority to develop a course where a legitimate need has been identified”.
Motion: Herminio Gonzalez
2 nd : Steve Bassett
Approved Unanimously
6. Discuss and Review the Letter be Sent to All Training Providers Telling Them That All Affected Courses Must Be Updated With 2006 Code Supplement
The members suggested changing “has” to “have” in the 2 nd paragraph and to place a comma behind 2006 in the first paragraph.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
7. Review Pending “Accreditor” Applications for Recommendation to the Commission
(None Pending)
8. Florida Building Commission Newsletter
The first edition of the newsletter will be available on September 1, 2006 . It will be created and distributed on a quarterly basis, including before the legislative session. It will be available via both e-mail and BCIS.
9. Identify Future POC Member Discussion Items
It was recommended that the POC recommend to the Commission to initiate the rulemaking process regarding Rule 9B-70, F.A.C.
10. Summary and Review of Meeting Work Products/Action Items, Assignments, and Next Steps
Adjournment
Motion: Steve Bassett
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
Recommended Commission Actions
The following courses, under the ‘Accredited, Pending FBC Approval” status, were approved by the POC.
Motion: Herminio Gonzalez
2 nd : Jon Hamrick
Approved Unanimously
Advanced Module Flexible Cords and Cables
Provider: JADE Learning
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
Advanced Module Temporary Electrical Wiring
Provider: JADE Learning
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
FBC High Velocity Hurricane Zone Requirements
Provider: BRB Code Educators, Inc.
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Fla. Building Code Adv. 2004 Build. Structural
Provider: RedVector.com, Inc.
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
National Electric Code on Labeled and Listed Electrical Equipment
Provider: International Association of Electrical Inspectors
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
2004 Advanced Build/Structural Summary (Internet)
Provider: Titan Continuing Education, Inc.
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC Enforcement & Education (Internet)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC Enforcement & Education (Home Study)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC Florida Building Commission (Internet)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC Permits And Application (Internet)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC Permits And Application (Home Study)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC Permits And Application (Instructor)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC The Commission Operations & Education (Internet)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC The Commission Operations & Education (Home Study)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC The Commission Operations & Education (Instructor)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC The Florida Building Commission (Home Study)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced FBC The Florida Building Commission (Instructor)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced Florida Building Code (Home Study)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced Florida Building Code (Internet)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced Florida Building Code Permits and Application (Home Study)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced Florida Building Code Permits and Application (Internet)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Florida Accessibility Code For Building Construction – Chapter 11 -Advanced
Provider: Larry Schneider
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
Residential Plumbing
Provider: DCA
Accreditor: JBD Code Services
Advanced Code Module (Internet)
Provider: Mike Holt Enterprises, Inc.
Accreditor: Tanenbaum Construction, Inc.
Updated Course Approvals (Administrative Approvals)
The courses listed below have been updated with the 2005 Code Supplement. The chair listed all of the courses and asked for a Consent Agenda approval for all of the courses
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Steve Bassett
Approved Unanimously
Course Provider Accreditor Date of Approval
Advanced 2004 FBC The Continuing BCIC LLC 5/19/2006
Build/Struc Summary Education Academy
Revised Advanced Boss Construction BCIC LLC 6/01/2006
2004 FBC Bldgs School
Summary
2004 FBC Bld/Struc Professional Training BCIC LLC 6/01/2006
Summary & Consultants, Inc.
2004 Fla. Building HG & Assoc., Inc. BCIC LLC 6/01/2006
Code, Advan. Bldg.
Advanced 2004 Cunningham BCIC LLC 6/09/2006
Building Structural Construction
Advanced Building Advanced Benefits BCIC LLC 6/20/2006
Structural Course Inc.
Advanced 2004 Boss Construction BCIC LLC 6/20/2006
Mechanical/Energy School
The July POC agenda was amended during the meeting and the following courses were added for the POC's consideration. These courses were pending approval.
Advance Accessibility, the Good, Bad, Ugly (Instructor)
Provider: Larry Schneider
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
Motion: Herminio Gonzalez
2 nd : Jon Hamrick
Approved Unanimously
Indoor Environmental Quality
Provider: Design Arts
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
Motion: Herminio Gonzalez
2 nd : Jon Hamrick
Approved Unanimously
Advanced Module Indoor Environmental Quality
Provider: JADE Learning
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
Motion: Herminio Gonzalez
2 nd : Jon Hamrick
Approved Unanimously
Advance Building Structural
Provider: Electrical Council of Florida
Accreditor; BCIC LLC
Motion: Herminio Gonzalez
2 nd . Jon Hamrick
Approved Unanimously
The following courses, also under the “Accredited, Pending FBC Approval” status, were approved contingent on minor changes identified by POC members .
Motion : Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
Advanced FBC Enforcement & Education (Instructor)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced Florida Building Code (Instructor)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
Advanced Florida Building Code Permits and Application (Instructor)
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
2004 Florida Building Code-Advanced
Provider: RS&H
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
4 Hour Advanced Administrative Core Code
Provider: Contractor's Institute
Accreditor: Tanenbaum Construction, Inc.
Motion: Approved, contingent on the removal of the word “core” from the title, within 15 calendar days
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Steve Bassett
Approved Unanimously
4 Hour Advanced Administrative Core Code (Internet)
Provider: Contractor's Institute
Accreditor: Tanenbaum Construction, Inc.
Motion: Approved, contingent on the removal of the word “core” from the title, within 15 calendar days
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
Courses with the status of ‘Deferred Action”
Advanced Administration (Internet)
Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction
Accreditor: Contractor's Institute
Motion: Deferred to next Commission meeting---not updated to 2004 FBC code
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
Advanced Administration
Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction
Accreditor: Contractor's Institute
Motion: Deferred to next Commission meeting---not updated to 2004 FBC code
Motion: Steve Bassett
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously
Fact Sheets---Per BASF Contract
1. Alarm Systems 0506
2. Swimming Pool Efficiencies 0506
3. Manufactured Buildings 0506
4. Window Systems 0606
5. Ventilation and Air Conditions 0606
Motion: To approve all of the fact sheets except the Electric System Basics, which requires a couple of changes as identified by a POC member.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
2 nd : Herminio Gonzalez
Approved Unanimously